Monday, 14 July 2003
Tim Malburn replies: I am just some bloke (I'll use Brit English) who saw Fred's site and sent a few examples in that to me looked better than the weird or dangerous stuff in many parts of the UK. Although I have to say York is good by our standards.
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Most of the photo's I've sent in of the Netherlands, and some in France are probably as good as there are, but I'm always keen to see better.
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The contraflow bike lane on a road is not ideal, complete segregation and motor vehicles giving way to the bikes (Netherlands and Belgium) is. The one I took in France, well there was not a car in sight, a different situation in Minneapolis I see.
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I am back in the NL tomorrow only for a couple of days and I'd say they and the Belgians have got it pretty good, always room for improvement though.
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Alan already knows that when we bought a new bike for my son when he was 8 and a half in the NL, he and I, were quite happy for him to cycle the new, first time on it bike, back to our friends house through the town centre. We were only happy to do this because of the absolute segregation, or vehicles having to give way at any intersections. I would not have contemplated the same in our home town in the UK.
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Basically we have nothing here, although Worcs County Council say they are commited to improving cycling numbers and sustainability, so there are some places even where they have a bit wrong. Like the French contraflow bike lane, mostly the rest of the French stuff was a lot better that the one white line painted by the side of the road that is driven and parked on in my area, and that is where there is something! We have a couple of segregated bike lanes, in fact there is a new one, lovely separate bike lane on a wide road, when it comes to a narrow road bridge it ends and you have to fight with the lorries which can only just fit on the the bridge�if one comes from each direction at the same time! I must get a photo of that one.
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The time delay you mention on your US photo's, the Dutch method is a bike crossing, with a loop-in separate from the road bike path, when you pass over the loop, if you coast by the time that you are at the road that you want to cross the traffic has been stopped and you have a green light, ace! In tight town centre is Belgium and NL, the law is bikes have priority, full stop. It is like being royalty on�a bike!
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So let's keep at these people at we may get something sensible, I love to drive and fly, but cycling is the best for of short (under 10km) distance and urban transport. I love being in the NL and B, because it is just plain nice and fun to be out on a bike.
PS The UK is getting as litigeous as the US, the idiot that you refer to, I would hope that would get laughed out of court here. But if you can suggest ways to litigate against my council to get them to do something to a worldclass standard to encourage cyclist, please do!
�
Most of the photo's I've sent in of the Netherlands, and some in France are probably as good as there are, but I'm always keen to see better.
�
The contraflow bike lane on a road is not ideal, complete segregation and motor vehicles giving way to the bikes (Netherlands and Belgium) is. The one I took in France, well there was not a car in sight, a different situation in Minneapolis I see.
�
I am back in the NL tomorrow only for a couple of days and I'd say they and the Belgians have got it pretty good, always room for improvement though.
�
Alan already knows that when we bought a new bike for my son when he was 8 and a half in the NL, he and I, were quite happy for him to cycle the new, first time on it bike, back to our friends house through the town centre. We were only happy to do this because of the absolute segregation, or vehicles having to give way at any intersections. I would not have contemplated the same in our home town in the UK.
�
Basically we have nothing here, although Worcs County Council say they are commited to improving cycling numbers and sustainability, so there are some places even where they have a bit wrong. Like the French contraflow bike lane, mostly the rest of the French stuff was a lot better that the one white line painted by the side of the road that is driven and parked on in my area, and that is where there is something! We have a couple of segregated bike lanes, in fact there is a new one, lovely separate bike lane on a wide road, when it comes to a narrow road bridge it ends and you have to fight with the lorries which can only just fit on the the bridge�if one comes from each direction at the same time! I must get a photo of that one.
�
The time delay you mention on your US photo's, the Dutch method is a bike crossing, with a loop-in separate from the road bike path, when you pass over the loop, if you coast by the time that you are at the road that you want to cross the traffic has been stopped and you have a green light, ace! In tight town centre is Belgium and NL, the law is bikes have priority, full stop. It is like being royalty on�a bike!
�
So let's keep at these people at we may get something sensible, I love to drive and fly, but cycling is the best for of short (under 10km) distance and urban transport. I love being in the NL and B, because it is just plain nice and fun to be out on a bike.
PS The UK is getting as litigeous as the US, the idiot that you refer to, I would hope that would get laughed out of court here. But if you can suggest ways to litigate against my council to get them to do something to a worldclass standard to encourage cyclist, please do!
Saturday, 12 July 2003
Added two new weird photos from Ralph of City Cyclists -- now up to page 7 of guest photos!
From John S. Allen: I fume with rage and laughter over your Weird Cycle Lanes pages. The British authorities are even more wacko than most in the USA. There may be an explanation for this in that the British legal system does not provide as much recourse as the US system -- see a discussion of this about halfway through the paper at
www.bikexprt.com/witness/wilson.htm
which is not a paper about cycle lanes but does discuss the legal systems.
But we have our wacko cycle lanes in the USA too, consider this page which I have just posted on my website::
www.bikexprt.com/bikepol/minneapolis/hennepin.htm
and also
www.bikexprt.com/massfacil/cambridge/freshpond/sidepath.htm
I do suggest, however that one example which you appear to give as a good one,
www.geocities.com/fredpipes/cyclelanes/images/guest_tim_0001.jpg
is a poor one. Placing a two-way cycle lane adjacent to a two-way roadway is bonkers for several reasons, see
www.bikexprt.com/bikepol/facil/twoway.htm
Feel free to use my photos on your guest pages! I need to link to you.
But also, have you ever read either of John Forester's books, Bicycle Transportation or Effective Cycling? These explain the *theory* of traffic movement for cyclists and provide a basis for analysis of some of the designs which look good to the uninformed but which experienced cyclists know to be deadly.
I do intend to provide a link to your pages. I have noted that while the design of bicycle facilities in Germany is improving, those countries which have recently decided to "do something" for bicycling, notably the UK and France, have determined to make all the old mistakes over again, and worse.
Whoa, it just struck me -- when I saw the photo of the burning West Pier -- your Brighton is the Brighton of Graham Greene's fine novel, Brighton Rock which I read some eons ago. Well, minus the West Pier.
From John S. Allen: I fume with rage and laughter over your Weird Cycle Lanes pages. The British authorities are even more wacko than most in the USA. There may be an explanation for this in that the British legal system does not provide as much recourse as the US system -- see a discussion of this about halfway through the paper at
www.bikexprt.com/witness/wilson.htm
which is not a paper about cycle lanes but does discuss the legal systems.
But we have our wacko cycle lanes in the USA too, consider this page which I have just posted on my website::
www.bikexprt.com/bikepol/minneapolis/hennepin.htm
and also
www.bikexprt.com/massfacil/cambridge/freshpond/sidepath.htm
I do suggest, however that one example which you appear to give as a good one,
www.geocities.com/fredpipes/cyclelanes/images/guest_tim_0001.jpg
is a poor one. Placing a two-way cycle lane adjacent to a two-way roadway is bonkers for several reasons, see
www.bikexprt.com/bikepol/facil/twoway.htm
Feel free to use my photos on your guest pages! I need to link to you.
But also, have you ever read either of John Forester's books, Bicycle Transportation or Effective Cycling? These explain the *theory* of traffic movement for cyclists and provide a basis for analysis of some of the designs which look good to the uninformed but which experienced cyclists know to be deadly.
I do intend to provide a link to your pages. I have noted that while the design of bicycle facilities in Germany is improving, those countries which have recently decided to "do something" for bicycling, notably the UK and France, have determined to make all the old mistakes over again, and worse.
Whoa, it just struck me -- when I saw the photo of the burning West Pier -- your Brighton is the Brighton of Graham Greene's fine novel, Brighton Rock which I read some eons ago. Well, minus the West Pier.
Saturday, 5 July 2003
Added a picture from Paul Rea, Chairman of CycleLincs, The Lincoln Cycle Campaign Group, showing the latest cycle lane to appear in Lincoln. It's on Sincil Bank, near the football ground.�� For some time CycleLincs, the Lincoln Cycle Campaign Group, have been trying to get the County Council to put in a cycle route to the hospital. Perhaps this is their solution!
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